It went straight... straight through under my arm,
into my chest,
and I never went to the hospital or anything.
- And what did you feel? You felt the...
- Yeah, just a... I felt the... the...
you know, the pressure of it when it hit.
That's all I felt,
and I kind of jumped back out the way,
and... and I looked, and my buddy threw me a knife,
and I looked down at the knife on the ground,
and I was like, you know,
I'm thinking to myself in my head, you know,
"I'm going home to my kids today."
You know, so I didn't even pick it up,
and then my other buddy come out running by the yard,
and I had to be at work in 30 minutes.
Matter of fact, I roof...
I was roofing a house with Jason's brother.
What is it, Chris Burkett?
And I was roofing a house with him.
- Chris was not in jail at that time.
- Nah.
- And you went to hospital?
- Nah.
They was asking me
if I needed to go to the hospital or anything,
but it just... some, like, puss
and a little bit of blood come out,
and, you know, I thought I was good.
Evidently, I guess I am.
So I was lucky there.
- But you have never been in... in real trouble with the law?
- I had a felony.
That's the only bad... bad one I had.
- But you're a working man.
- Yes, sir. - You have a job?
- Yeah, I ain't been in trouble in four years.
- Can I see your hands? - Yeah.
- When we shook hands, I noticed your calluses.
You are working... - Yeah.
- In a paint shop? - Yep.
- Cars. - Yes, sir.
- Solid work. - Yes, sir.
- And the tattoo in here?
Can I see this? Can you show it?
- Bailey.
- You had been with her when you met Burkett?
- Nah. - Not yet, uh-huh.
- No.
I've been with her for three years,
and I got a 17 month old baby with her.
- Oh, yeah. So you are staying with her?
- Yeah.
- Now the tattoo is forever.
- Yeah, it's forever.
They just don't come off.
- And what happens if the relationship unravels?
What happens to "Bailey"?
- Guess I'm gonna have to get "Bailey sucks" right there.
(laughs)
- Can you talk about Jason Burkett?
How did you meet him? How did you know him?
What do you know about him?
- First time I ever met him,
seemed like a pretty cool guy, you know?
So we hung out,
and I introduced him to a few girls and everything,
and then we used to go huntin' together.
One time, he tried to kill me.
I introduced him to these girls,
and her dad and him had something going on.
I don't know.
Well, anyway, he thought I wanted to get with that girl
and come over to another girl's house
and rushed me with a gun.
Well, I had this girl tell me to come outside,
and I was eating supper,
and he rushed me with a gun.
So we fought for about 45 minutes
with a gun to my head in this girl's house.
It was a .22 caliber single-shot pistol.
Yeah, he held... held it to my head,
banged me in the head with it.
We were fighting all through the house with the gun
till I locked myself in this bedroom,
and he was gonna kick in the door,
so I just opened the door and let him in
because I didn't want him to tear this girl's dad's house up,
and after that, we started fighting again,
and he pinned me on the bed, and he pulled the trigger.
- Where did the bullet go?
- Nah, it misfired,
because the bullet come out the gun,
and you could tell on a 22 bullet, there's like...
it's just that round, flat piece on the bottom.
Well, if the firing pin ain't long enough,
it don't hit it, and... and it don't... it won't go off,
but it hit it, but I don't know why it didn't go off.
- You were lucky. - Yeah.
- Very lucky.
- Yeah, I kind of blacked out there.
(laughs)
(spits)
But, yeah, real lucky.
And then him killing those people, man,
I feel sorry for their families.
Me and my friend Big Justin was up at the bar one time,
and he come up there with these new cars, him and Perry,
and we're like, "Man",
where'd y'all get these new cars at?"
He's like, "oh, we was holding hands"...
him and Perry was holding hands
and scratched off a lottery ticket together
and won them two cars.
Well, me and my buddy knew it wasn't right,
because they're both felons, you know what I mean?
Ain't nobody gonna sell them...
ain't neither one got a driver's license,
so, you know, and... and the cars were, like, fully loaded,
CD's, skateboards, and stuff like that in there,
and so we knew something... something was up with it,
and he started giving people joy rides up at the bar.
- Jason and Michael came up to the bar
to show off two new vehicles that they had purchased,
and at first, we... nobody really understood.
They explained that they had purchased a lottery ticket,
and that's how they got the money to buy the cars,
and at that time, it started getting a little weird.
- What didn't sound right about this?
- The amount of the lottery ticket was $4,000.
They said they cashed it in a gas station.
That doesn't usually happen.
The vehicles themselves didn't look like
they just came off a car lot.
- You drove these cars?
- I rode in them. I didn't drive them.
Yeah, they... Jason and Michael
were kind of giving everybody test drives,
and I rode in both vehicles.
The... the red Camaro, when I rode in it,
they were showing off guns.
There was a 12 gauge shotgun,
and I don't remember the other one,
but I did see 'em in the trunk of the red Camaro that night.
From what I heard, rumors, you know, they were into...
initially planning on stealing a car of my roommate
at the house I was staying at,
and that scared the hell out of me,
'cause that could've been me.
You know, if he would've decided to come
and get the car in my driveway, where would I be?
I've... I've managed to block it.
I've managed to try to not deal with it
and not think about it.
I guess being in the situations that I've been in,
just from being employed at that bar,
I have seen so many awful things that I don't deal with them.
I just kind of put them back.
- Did Jason brag about crimes?
- He never bragged to me and my buddy Big Justin.
We didn't even know what had happened,
and they was... they come got us from Justin's house,
the police did, and they took us up there,
and they was like, "Y'all read the paper?"
And I told 'em, well, I couldn't read,
and then they didn't believe me,
and they looked at my record and found out I can't read,
and then, so they read the paper to me,
and they told me what they had done.
- Mm-hmm.
Do you read now?
- Oh, yeah.
- So late, you started to learn how to read.
- Yeah, I learned how to read.
- Wonderful, yes?
I find this a great achievement.
- Yeah, it is awesome.
- You are much more connected now.
- Yeah.
- How does it feel not to be able to read?
You have to be much smarter than the others
to understand the world anyway.
- Yeah.
It's... it's kind of tough out there when you can't read,
but, I mean, 'cause they ain't always have
somebody gonna read it for you.
But, I mean, I learned how to read in jail
so I could write letters and read the letters,
and other than that, I don't plan on going back,
but I'm glad I learned how to read there.
- And you are doing good now? - Oh, yeah.
Staying busy at the paint and body shop.
- Reading? - Oh, yeah.
- Writing?
- Not much writing.
A lot of sanding.
(laughs)
- I'm interested in your relationship with Michael Perry.
How did you two meet?
How does this thing happen?
- In 2000, I had a girlfriend in 2000.
She had a friend named Miranda.
I ended up going to jail,
and Miranda, I seen her on the side of the road
arguing with Michael Perry, and I said...
I pulled over, and I asked her what was going on,
and she said, "He's living in my trunk,
"and I can't get him...
"you know, he can't live there no more.
"My dad's seen him.
"My dad got in a fight with him this morning.
He can't live there."
So he was living in the trunk of a car,
and I said, "Well, I don't know what to tell you."
And she asked me, "Can he live with you?"
And at that moment, I told her,
"No, he can't live with me."
And then, I looked at him, and she's, like, sad and crying,
and she said, "Please, let him live with you just for a month."
This was when we were living in the camper trailer,
and I told him, "You can live with us.
Get your stuff, put it in my truck, and come home."
And from that day on, I fed him, gave him money,
took care of him.
He was like a... like a little brother,
kid brother that was pushed on you,
and... and when they... he's older than me by a few months,
but I had to take care of him because he had nothing.
He had nobody.
Little did I know he had a very supportive family.
His mom and dad were both supportive.
He just didn't want to follow rules.
He was just like me and didn't want to follow rules,
and that's why he ended up living with me,
'cause they said, "Work and you can live with us."
He didn't want to work.
- And you were sent on a outward Bound trip into Florida.
What happened? What was that, yeah?
- Well, you know, I'm a city boy at heart,
you know what I'm saying?
I'm really not into the nature and bugs
and... and the weather and, you know.
So, you know, when... they sent me on a two week canoe trip.
- Which sounds wonderful for me, but...
- Yeah, you know, you know, I like to canoe,
but what it... what was...
It wasn't the canoeing that was bad.
It was that it was in the Everglades.
I mean, we're seeing alligators everywhere.
Now, my question is...
and I didn't even realize that until I got here...
what happened if I would've fell out
and got eaten by an alligator?
Who would've been responsible?
You know, did my parents sign some type of waiver?
Because there was alligators everywhere.
- Well, a young man of 13, you better watch out
and... and handle the alligators well, yes.
- Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
- But what happened then? You didn't...
- Well, I think it was on the third or fourth day.
We would canoe until, like, nighttime and pull in.
I guess they had certain designations marked,
and sometimes we'd pull in, like, at midnight.
There's bugs... you can reach out and grab a handful of bugs,
and then they'd want us to cook dinner,
and, you know, I'm like, "Man, I can't."
And one of the things of the program was
to teach you immediate...
you know, every action there's a... there's a reaction,
so immediate consequences to your decisions,
and one of the things I learned is that
if I don't pay attention to the lessons...
we had these bags for our property,
and you had to seal them right, or they wouldn't be waterproof.
Well, I didn't listen, and it fell in the water,
and all my stuff got wet, so I didn't have my own tent.
I didn't have no toilet paper any more,
and I didn't like that.
So basically, I... I was my typical stubborn self,
and I told them, "You know what?"
I ain't doing this no more. Take me home."
- But you were not attacked by alligators, but...
- No, we were attacked by monkeys, though.
- By monkeys. What happened?
- Absolutely, monkeys were jumping from one side
to the trees on the side we were at
and come... trying to come over there,
and they couldn't figure out where the monkeys came from,
but there was a whole bunch of them,
a whole bunch.
I wanted to get out and get one,
but they said they have diseases, right?
- So best... case scenario,
if you are granted parole in 2041,
how old would you be then?
Does this ever occur to you?
Do you want to think about it?
- I'll be 59, 60.
I was 19.
I have to do 40 years from 19,
which will be 59 years old.
Long time.
- When it came to the phase after your trial was over,
for punishment phase, your father showed up in court.
Can you describe the scene?
- I knew he was coming,
and I knew what he was gonna testify to,
but to hear him testify, it's like...
I was born with neuroblastomas.
I... I had 18 surgeries by the time I was five,
and I... I don't know a lot about it
because it's something that I try to shy away from.
I knew he was gonna testify to my raising,
and I was a... in pain all the time,
and he'd watch me cry to sleep, and...
It was difficult, because I seen him cry.
I mean, if you ever see my dad,
he's 6'6 ", 6'7", 300 pounds, big old guy, tattooed.
- And they brought him in from... from prison.
- He came in from prison.
- Is he still incarcerated?
- He's right across the street on Ellis Unit.
- Mr. Burkett, how are you doing?
- Just... I'm doing fine.
Doing fine. Little sick.
- How fine? - Little bit sick.
- Mm-hmm.
You are in here for how many years?
- 40.
- 40 years. - Yes, sir.
- Eight felony counts, is that correct?
- Yes, sir. - That's pretty serious.
- Yes, sir.
- And you spent some time before this 40 year sentence in jail.
Is that correct?
- Yes, sir. - Yeah.
- I've been in prison five times.
- How many years already?
- A 2 year sentence, a 5 year sentence,
a 30 year sentence, and then this 40.
- That's a lot. - Yes, sir.
- What went wrong?
- Drugs and alcohol.
- Can you explain?
- Well, I started using drugs when I was about 13,
drinking and drugging, and, uh...
Selling and manufacturing.
Some stealing and burglarizing going along with it
to sup... support the habit
and always end up back in prison.
- There's one significant moment when Jason, your son,
was found guilty for capital murder...
- Yes. - And triple homicide.
During the sentencing phase, you appeared in court.
Can you describe what you said to the jury?
- Well... (clears throat)
I explained to 'em what prison life was about,
and I explained... I explained to 'em
that I didn't think killing him
was gonna bring back those people or really, you know,
do anything to correct what happened,
and I asked the jury to, you know,
"Please, you know, don't kill my son."
I asked 'em.
I said just, "Please, don't kill my son."
He never had a chance.
He didn't have a father.
I told 'em that, you know, he did... I was never there,
and his mother was a, you know, single mother
with four children,
and... and she had handicaps.
She... she's on disability.
Most of that time, she was living on disability,
and so they... they really didn't...
they lived off food stamps,
and, you know, HUD housing and that type of thing,
and... and he... he really...
he really had a real poor life growing up.
I just asked 'em not to kill my son.
It wasn't his fault.
I... it... I wished I could...
I wish that I could take the time, his time.
I wish I could, 'cause I feel like that it's my fault.
I... I... really do.
I feel like it's...
I'm as much at fault as he is,
'cause if I'd have been there,
it, quite possibly, maybe not,
but... but it might possibly have been different.
He'd have had a better chance.
You know, he'd have a whole lot better chance,
if I'd have been there helping his mother raise him,
but I wasn't.
The jury got up to leave,
and the door was right here to my right,
and as the door closed behind them,
I heard two ladies break down.
I'm... I'm real emotional,
and I'm crying through the whole thing,
but as they went through that door, and the door closed,
I heard two ladies break down crying.
They broke down, and then the...
when it... it was all over and his lawyer come told me,
he said... I remember the... his words.
He said, "You got him."
- You saved a life.
- He said... he said, "You got him."
I said, "What do you mean?"
He said, "You got him."
And that's where I... that's what saved...
there was two votes.
It was ten to two, and there was two votes
that voted not to kill him,
and I think those were the two ladies right there that...
they're the ones that saved his life.
- But you can be proud of this moment.
- Yeah.
I had some help too.
God helped me.
He did.
I asked God to help me, and I think He did.
I didn't deserve any help for him.
He may not deserve the help,
but we got it from some place, so...
- The hardest part was to look at him
and for him to look at me,
and I seen that he was sincere,
that he really was sorry for, you know,
what he had done throughout my whole childhood,
and he had been in prison.
I don't blame him for it,
but I seen right there that he understood
that it did affect us, and I cried that one day,
that was it, through the... the whole trial.
Even after conviction,
the only thing that hurt me was my... my dad testifying.
- Whenever I went back and testified,
his brother went back and testified too.
His brother was in... in prison, Chris,
and... and we, me and Chris went...
came back to the diagnostics together,
and then... and I'm embarrassed,
but all of three of us, we had Thanksgiving together,
me and Chris and Jason over at the diagnostics unit.
You know, and they, uh...
They think that's kind of cool,
but as a father, I thought that was pretty embarrassing
to be sitting there in prison with my sons.
- All of them incarcerated. - Yes, sir.
And then me and Jason went on over to the next place together,
handcuffed together in the bus,
and that's something that I never in my life
would ever dreamed... dreamed of that would've happened,
that that same little baby that was...
We had to hold him down to take bone marrow tests out of,
the same little 6 pound baby.
- Describe the feeling to me when you are handcuffed together
with your own son in the same bus.
Can you describe that?
- No, not really. It... it's, uh...
- Try to describe it for us.
(sighs)
Well, I don't know.
I just felt like a total failure,
total failure as a father.
- And you could feel his hand, can't you?
- Yes.
Yeah, we were handcuffed to this hand and his right hand,
and we were sitting there, and... and I was just...
it was just total failure.
That's what I felt like.
I felt like crap, you know,
and I used a different word to the jury,
and... and... and that's...
and that's what I meant.
You know, he had trash for a... for a father,
and... and then here I was sitting with my baby son
on a prison bus, and, I mean, I don't think it...
I don't think it gets much lower than that, you know?
It just don't.
Knowing me or him, neither one'll ever, you know,
get out again.
I just got a three year set off again
about a week ago, so...
We'll never... me or him will never get out again.
- And will he ever get out again?
- I don't think so.
He comes up for parole the first time in...
in 1942 for the first time.
- 40 years after his conviction.
- Yes, sir, 1941. I'm sorry.
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
- Yeah, 2041. You're a century back.
- Yes. - Behind.
- 19 yeah, 2041. I'm sorry.
- Well, it doesn't matter. It's time must be.
- A long time.
- Time is probably different for you in here.
- Yes, sir.
- This is actually the vehicle
that was in Sandra Stotler's garage.
This was the vehicle
that Michael Perry and Jason Burkett was... was after.
Three people died for this car,
a car that was in their possession
for less than 72 hours, I believe.
Within a couple of years,
I mean, this vehicle was just trashed,
the inside of it,
because there was actually a tree that had rooted
and had come up through the center of it,
and it tore the floorboard up,
and whenever we actually had to move it over to this lot,
it was a little bit difficult because of that.
- A tree grew inside of it.
- A tree grew up from the bottom up into...
up into the car.
- Why did they die?
- I ask myself that question every day.
I mean, for a vehicle?
You know, I... I don't know.
I don't know.
People die every day over giving people a dirty look
or, you know, $2.
People rob each other, and I don't know.
I don't know why they died,
the greed of these two boys.
I don't know.
I don't... I don't have an answer.
- Can you speak about the family of victims?
Nobody seems to address that side.
- I... I don't...
- How do you live with all this?
(sighs) I didn't for a while.
I'm starting to live again,
but basically I just shut down.
Montgomery County has a victims assistance program,
but when you... when your whole family's ripped from you,
you... you know, you're kind of like, what's the point?
What's the point of living any more?
I don't have a family to share it with.
And I know I have to live for my children,
to raise my children.
I don't want them to have a miserable life
or have a depressed mother all the time.
But for about four years, I didn't go anywhere.
I stayed in the house,
took the phone out of the home.
I don't like to talk to people.
I figure, if I don't get close to anybody,
I don't... you know, I won't get hurt again.
I don't know.
I just... I just shut down, really.
My grandmother shut down.
Our... our lives are... are empty, very empty.
Very empty.
That's Adam.
That was his six... he was 16 there.
That was his last school picture.
My brother, my brother was my best friend.
He was... he was only 16.
It is true that he is not my real brother.
My sister was... got pregnant when she was 16,
and my parents adopted him,
and they were actually out of town the day he was born,
so I was the first one to hold him,
and I just... I had this feeling his whole life
that something was gonna happen to him,
and I remember calling my mother and saying, you know,
"What's Adam doing? Where's Adam?"
You need to make sure... y'all just moved up to ohio.
"You need to make sure you're watching him."
And my mom was like, "I've raised five children.
I can take care of him."
And when he hit 16, I knew he was... he was good.
He was safe. He was a man.
He'd be able to take care of himself now.
He was such a great kid.
He was in love for the first time in his life.
And, um, one... one thing that sticks out for me,
my mom always protected me.
One thing that I remember,
I was supposed to get married.
Well, I did get married September 16, 1995,
but my dad, Mel, he was a preacher,
and he was supposed to marry me and Kenneth.
He died six months before the wedding.
He was hit by a train, him and my older brother
and the family dog.
And so we got... I refused to get married in a church,
so we got married on the boat in Lake Conroe.
Right as I was walking out the...
walking out the door to go down the aisle,
my mother pinned my dad's wedding ring inside my dress
right over my heart,
and she said, "I didn't want your dad to miss this."
And, you know, that just...
- You loved her.
- Yes, and I know she was in so much pain that day,
but she hid it because I was so happy.
She hid her pain for me,
and, you know, she... she just made it through the day.
I just miss 'em a lot.
Our family's just so incomplete, so incomplete.
You know, sometimes my kids will ask me things,
and I'll go, "I don't know."
I wonder what my mo...".
You know, there's things at all times of day and night
I want to call and ask her.
It took me forever to realize she was really gone
'cause I would want to pick up the phone and call her.
- Is this why you got rid of the phone?
- Yes, I... I did not want another phone call
telling me somebody else in my family had died.
I couldn't handle those phone calls any more.
I couldn't handle 'em any more,
so I just cut myself off from the world.
I can't... I can't have a phone on.
I just don't like to hear the phone ring any more
'cause all it ever brought me was bad news.
- The worst. - The worst.
- Not just bad, yeah.
You had to... to face it.
- Yeah.
Well, you know, it's just, I mean,
not only did I lose my mother and my father and my brother
to tragic circumstances.
I mean, my grandfather had a stroke.
My uncle hung himself.
My other uncle had a heroin overdose.
My stepbrother shot himself 'cause he had pancreatic cancer.
My real father died in his sleep.
All this was in six years, a six year period.
I lost everyone in my family, everybody.
- Mr. Burkett, if you close the eyes
and you think about a different life
and it could start all over,
how would you raise the children?
- Well...
It's hard to answer something that you've never done,
and, you know, embarrassing...
it's embarrassing to say that,
but... but I know when... I would like...
I would like to them have...
I had a scholarship to the University of Texas
in 1973, in football,
and I quit school in my senior year,
quit football and quit school and lost that,
and I wish I could go back to right there.
- Yes, go back to right there.
Now you have the children.
- Then I have the children, and... and I would had...
I would have done everything in my power
to... to help them finish school like I didn't.
You always tell them, "Don't be like me."
Well, I wished...
I wished I would've been something they could've been,
and I wish they could've finished school.
I wish we could've played baseball like I did
when I was little, in Little League.
I wish that we could've played baseball.
Two of them did for, like, one time.
I wish we could've played baseball,
and I wished I could've went to their football games.
And I raised a steer in... in school for FFA.
I wish they could've did that.
We lived in the country.
That's what I wish we could go back, all of us,
and... and... and go to school, school events.
I got to watch one of my sons
play the horn one time in school,
and... and that's the stuff that I remember.
That's the good stuff,
and this all wouldn't have happened.
- I want to say this on the record.
I'm not saying that my husband was a Boy Scout.
I'm not saying that Jason Burkett did absolutely...
had no knowledge and was, like, selling cookies
or raising money for camp when that happened.
I'm saying that Jason did not kill one, two, or three people.
Sandra, Jeremy, and Adam were not killed by Jason.
- And you asked your husband...
you asked Jason point blank,
"Can you tell me what... what happened?"
because you wanted to make sure.
What did you ask him?
- I've asked Jason multiple times
to tell me everything that I need to know.
I said, "Jason..."
Jason doesn't have a whole lot of money,
so we do most of his stuff pro se,
which is where we file it ourselves,
and me and his father have pretty much done his appeal,
and I always ask him,
"I need to know everything you can tell me
to help you get home,"
and that's basically how we start our conversations,
and Jason will recall things, and, you know, more and more,
it's, like, been a snowball that I've picked up
exactly what I think happened.
- Yeah.
And you are told he was innocent.
- Yes.
- And you do believe him.
- I do believe him.
I... like I said, I believe that Jason had involvement.
I don't believe he killed three people.
I wrote Jason for maybe two years
before I went to meet him,
because really I could do most of the stuff through the mail,
and one day I was talking to his mother,
and she said something to the effect of,
"You'll never guess what Jason said to me today,"
and I said, "What?"
And she said, "He told me that he was in love with you."
And I said, "That's crazy."
And I remember, to give you, like, the pre-story,
I was with my best friend, and when I hung up,
I said to my best friend... her name's Kat...
I was like, "Kat, Jason Burkett's in love with me."
She goes, "That's probably pretty good
'cause you're in love with him too."
And I said, "What are you talking about?
"Don't be an idiot," you know?
And she said, "Dude, when is the last time
"you've been on a date?
"When was the last time you haven't spent a Saturday night
with Jason Burkett's court paperwork?"
I was like, "Hey, that's not nice."
But I ended up driving...
I lived in Nebraska at the time.
I ended up driving from omaha to Abilene
because I wanted him to tell me himself,
and he was at the Robertson Unit.
- You were two days and two nights driving?
- Yes.
I drove it... it seemed, like, endless too.
I drove, and I got there,
and I remember, I just asked him.
Like, that was the first thing I said.
I was like, "Hi, we've never seen each other in our lives",
"but hi.
Your mom told me that you're in love with me."
But I didn't say it.
I wanted to be coy, so I said,
"Your mom told me you told her something in a visit."
I said, "What... what did you tell her?"
And he said, "I need stamps?"
And I was like, "I wouldn't be in Abilene
"because you need stamps, right?
What are you... don't play games with me."
And he goes, "oh, that part where I said
I was in love with you?"
And then I dropped the phone because I was nervous,
and I didn't know what to say,
and I kind of fumbled through that whole visit
because I didn't immediately go, "I love you too."
It wasn't, you know, like a movie.
I was very nervous.
I'm not that girl that falls in love with an inmate.
And I was like, okay, I'm just gonna be cool with it,
and then when I left, the day I met Jason,
there was a rainbow, and I'm not...
This is true. It's in our letters.
There was a rainbow that went from one gate...
side of the gate to the other side of the gate,
and I thought that was the most miraculous sign that this is...
this is the boy that I'm supposed to be with
and this is... he is innocent,
because how many times do you see a whole rainbow?
And we saw a whole rainbow, and my friend was with me.
He saw the rainbow too. I have a witness.
And when Jason...
when I got home, I had a letter waiting for me,
and he said, "Did you see the rainbow?"
- At the gates of the prison.
- It went from one side, my side on the outside,
to the inside to him.
- I believe in me, you know, I know what...
I know what happened back in 2001.
I know that I wasn't a part of it,
and I believe strongly in... in my faith,
in my attorneys, and in the outcome,
but at the same time, I don't even recognize these walls.
I don't pay attention to this,
because if you do, you're gonna lose your mind.
You're gonna... you're gonna go... you're gonna lose your mind.
Recently, another guy just killed himself the other day,
and he left a note saying that,
"Y'all have to live around all this craziness,
and I'm gone,"
and that's because he was focusing on it,
but I don't.
I don't focus on it.
You know, I just... I just distract myself.
I stay busy. I work on my case.
I have a great family,
a lot of supporters that help me,
so I have enough distractions.
If I didn't have enough distractions,
I might be in a different position.
- How does time occur to you now in your situation?
- Wow, that's a... that's a good...
it... it really varies, but, you know,
because, I'll... like, I'll forget.
I'll literally forget,
and then I'll look at my calendar
or I'll hear someone say something,
and I'm like, "Man."
And I'll sit back, and I'll just stare at the wall,
and I'll be like, "Man, eight days,
seven days, six days," or whatever, and it's like...
it's just... I must not be comprehending the fact
that it's that close, because, you know,
it's hard for me to say, you know what...
like, I talk to people, "You know, in eight days,
these people want to murder me,"
and it's just something that, it's hard for me to...
hard for me to believe
that the state of Texas wants to murder me in eight days.
- And worst case scenario,
you know exactly what is going to happen on July 1st?
- Yeah, the execution. Mm-hmm.
- You will be transported to Huntsville?
- Right, the Walls Unit. - That's a death house?
- Yes, sir.
- And you will be checked by a medical examiner?
- I don't... no, no medical people can be involved.
- I think they... they have to check you
that you are fit to be executed.
- I've never heard that, but it might be.
- I think it's one of these absurdities.
If you are unconscious, for example,
you cannot be executed.
- Oh, yeah?
- Or if you are stark mad or something...
- Yeah, yeah. - They would not execute you.
- Yeah, that is true.
- Or if you are bleeding from a gunshot wound,
they would not put you onto the gurney.
- Right.
They got to treat me first and then kill me, huh?
- Probably, yes. (laughs)
That's... that's kind of crazy to think about, right?
Yeah, I just... I just can't allow myself to think.
I can't even picture myself laying on a gurney,
but if it happens, I'll have to deal with it, huh?
You know, I'll have to deal with it,
and I'll be able to watch over my mom from heaven
with a clear conscience and be at peace.
You know, like I said, for a long time,
my life has been unhappy,
so finally I can find me some peace, huh?
- And you are at peace with yourself.
- Now.
- Mm-hmm. Took a long time.
- Yes, absolutely did.
Took a long time to realize what a man was.
I was out there acting like a child.
I acted like a child when I got in here at first,
but I'm confident in... in who I am now.
- Michael Perry, I wish you all the best.
- Yes, thank you.
I don't know what's gonna happen, huh?
We're gonna see. We're gonna find out.
I'll find out on Monday.
- They knew what I was telling them
was gonna be the truth.
I mean, I'm not gonna tell you anything that...
I'm gonna tell you everything that's gonna happen back here.
At 4:00, a guy's gonna come in here,
and they're gonna fingerprint you.
Shortly after that,
we're gonna allow you to take a shower,
and then we're gonna put you in free world clothes,
let you... let you dress in free world clothes.
Free world clothes would be clothes you and I would wear.
5:00, 6:00, whatever your... your request for the last meal,
they'll bring it in,
and you'll sit there and eat your last meal.
During that time, if you need anything else, just ask.
You know, you need some more juice, punch,
or whatever else we got back here, just ask.
You know, and they... you know,
sometimes we get strange requests.
You know, within reason, I'm gonna get it for you.
- Give me one of those requests.
- Oh, one was,
"Man, I'd sure like to smoke a doobie right now."
Well, that's not gonna happen, you know.
The guy with the key, he opens the door,
swings the door open.
There's another correctional officer behind him
and another one behind me.
So soon as he does, he follows me in,
and then the other correctional officers
follow right in behind him.
So there'll be two in front of... in front of the inmate,
and then the other three right behind him.
I tell him jump up on the gurney,
which then I automatic...
- It's only a few steps from the cell.
- I would say no more than ten steps, if that much.
I would immediately go around to the gurney
'cause I always took care of the left leg.
So soon as he laid down, I took care of the left leg.
The other person who was in front with me
would take care of the right.
The... the three that fell in behind,
one would take care of the... the right arm.
The other one would take care of the left arm,
and the other one would be there in case the inmate,
once he lays down,
if he had a response to try to get back up,
his job was to hold... to hold his shoulders down.
You know, you're not...
once you're up there, you're up there, you know.
Within that time,
us four people would have him done.
Probably within about 15 seconds,
he'd be strapped down that quick,
'cause we all knew exactly where our straps were
and what we were supposed to do.
The time. Do... do a process.
We trained on it.
It's the last time you're gonna see...
I'm gonna see him with his eyes open,
because after the execution's done
and the process went
and then... then they call the doctor in
to pronounce him dead,
then everybody leaves.
My job begins again 'cause I have to go back in there,
and that's... that's all...
also kind of difficult
because here you sit with this individual eight or ten hours,
all day long,
and now the last thing you're doing
is removing those straps.
The straps have to be removed
and put him on another gurney for the funeral home.
And then, you thought...
you didn't think about none of this
while you're doing this, the procedure.
You know, none of this, you're... you don't keep...
you don't put those emotions out there.
Do you... you do the job and go home.
- You did how many executions, roughly?
- It was over 125, 120.
It was somewhere over 120.
It was a bunch.
We got to the point to where, especially after I...
I think I promoted to captain in '90.
We were doing two a week,
and that was getting tiresome.
- And what happened to you then?
(clears throat)
I... back when they...
when they brought in Karla Faye,
I stayed back there with her.
Now, definitely that was the first female
that we were fixing to execute.
I remember one thing so vividly,
that it was an hour before,
and I was standing there,
and the chaplain was standing there,
and she looked at me, and she goes,
"Thank you, Captain Allen, for everything you've done."
I said, "You're welcome."
You know, that's all I could say, you know.
What else can... what else am I gonna say?
What, "I'm fixin' to strap you down in another hour"?
Which we went...
procedure and everything went just the way it was supposed to.
You know, she was pronounced dead.
I went back in there, and I took the gurn...
took the straps off,
put her, you know, on the gurney and that stuff.
We locked everything up, went about our business,
and... and everything was fine.
I had a little shop in the back.
It was 6:00, and the news come on over the radio,
and it started again,
and for some reason, just out of the blue,
hearing it, it triggered me seeing her hurt,
and I just started shaking.
I don't know what's wrong, and then, it was...
- How badly did you shake?
- It was... it was... it was a shake.
It was a shake.
Like, I couldn't... why am I shaking?
And then I could see my...
I was sweating and in tears.
All of a sudden, man, this... this is hurtin'.
I remembered her... this was two days afterwards.
I remembered her execution.
Hers wasn't no different than anybody else,
but it was hers,
and then I started actually visualizing the other inmates
as... you asked me, "Did you look in their eyes when they're"...
I could see 'em.
I could actually see 'em in their holding cell again,
you know, one right after another,
and it seemed like there was just...
My wife goes, "What's wrong with you?"
And I don't know.
I need to talk to somebody.
And the first person I could think of to call was Carroll,
Chaplain Pickett,
and he come over to the house,
and we sat on that old swing, and I started coming down,
and I... he says, "What's wrong?"
And I told him,
and then I looked at Carroll, and I said,
"I can't do it no more.
"That's it. I'm... I'm done.
I can't... I can't go back there any more."
- Could it be that you thought that this was not yourself
but maybe it was your real self that moment?
- That's a good possibility.
- What's really deep inside of you...
- Yes.
- Came out.
- That's a good... that's very...
I mean, that's... I mean, from that point on,
I mean, I've had a different outlook in life.
If executions was the law,
then I was gonna make sure that it was done professionally,
with integrity.
After Karla... and I was pro capital punishment.
After Karla Faye and after all this,
until this day, 11 years later...
No, sir.
I don't... nobody has the right to take another life.
I don't care if it's the law.
And it's so easy to change the law.
- I... I don't want to sound, um...
Like a evil person or...
but I am so glad I went to the execution.
I really am.
I fought with my... with myself about going.
I reserved this... the seat so I could be there,
but I'm glad I went.
I'm really glad I went.
It... it really did something to me.
- Yeah. What did it do?
- I don't... I don't know what...
I don't know what happened,
but I... immediately after the execution,
I felt like a...
that saying, a huge weight had been lifted.
I actually could take a deep breath.
My heart didn't ache as much.
I remember walking in
and thinking, "This looks like a boy."
I had built this huge monster,
evil, you know, murdering monster in my head,
and he was just a boy.
He was just a boy laying on that gurney.
When I walked in, he looked at me,
and he looked away, and he did a double take.
Same thing Jason Burkett did in court.
I look like my mom.
I look a lot like my mother.
- And what did he say?
- He forgave us.
He forgave us.
Yeah.
And I was upset when I walked in.
I was crying.
You know, our whole... my whole family,
we didn't want to see someone die, you know.
No one should have to do... go through that,
but we were there for my mother, you know, and my brother,
and we were crying, and when he said he forgave us...
- For what?
- For the atrocity brought against him.
And then he said he's ready to go.
I heard his mother cry,
and they gave him the injection.
He gasped for air four times.
I watched his shirt thump,
you know, his heart beating on his shirt.
I watched it till it stopped, and it stopped at 6:14.
One tear fell down his eye, one tear.
And he was gone, and it was over.
- And the prospect of someone
who is gonna be locked away for life without parole,
would that satisfy...
- Definitely. - Yes.
- Definitely.
- So it would be definitely an alternative,
because death penalty sounds a little bit too much
like old Testament, the wrath of God.
- An eye for an eye.
- Jesus probably would not have been an advocate of...
- Probably not.
Probably not.
But some people just don't deserve to live.
- Can I say something? - Please.
- I know on July the 1st is when they...
they executed Michael,
and... and I knew Michael pretty well.
- Yeah.
- And I kept up with...
I have every kind of clipping and website thing
I have on him and Jason.
I have, like, a whole locker box full.
So I know as much about him as anybody,
and Michael was just... just like Jason.
They were both young,
and whatever they did or didn't do, I don't know.
I was not there, but Michael was just a...
was just a young... a young kid, and I know he...
I know when they executed him, I know how he...
I know his last words and everything else,
and I know, by executing Michael,
I don't think it brought any of those people back,
and I don't think it deterred anything.
I... I don't think it deterred anybody out there.
As much publicized as it was, it did not deter anything,
and I really do not believe that it solved anything
by taking another life, and it hurt me.
When it come time for his execution,
I knew it was gonna be about 6:00,
usually a few minutes after 6:00 P.M.,
and I was on my knees at my bunk for Michael,
praying for Michael,
and a feeling come over me
right about ten... five or ten minutes after 6:00,
a feeling come over me that's hard...
very, very hard to explain.
It was like I felt the loss of...
of what used to be my son's best friend.
I felt... I felt that.
I felt that pain whenever they killed him.
But I just wish those fam...
the family members would know that,
how much that I... I hurt for their loss.
That's very important, and Michael never, never...
that's what upset them,
'cause Michael never tried to reach out to 'em.
I wished I could and say I'm sorry.
- Yeah.
Melyssa, let me address one thing.
Among death row inmates,
there's such a phenomenon like death row groupies,
the same way rock stars have groupies,
and you have seen women like that.
- I have seen women like that, in fairness.
I've also seen women who are married to death row inmates
in truly committed relationships
that I believe are not disingenuous
and I believe come from their heart.
You know, some people are just supposed to be together,
whether there's a cage and lawman between you.
I believe that.
I mean, I do believe that
there's a fair amount of women who want attention,
who want media coverage, who seek out infamous men.
I mean, like Scott Peterson gets a hundred letters a day
on death row in California.
That's ridiculous.
- He murdered his pregnant wife.
- Yes.
- Is that correct, that case? Yeah, a good... looking man.
- Good looking man.
- However, Jason is not an ugly man either.
Describe him to us, please.
- Like, physically? - Yes.
You only have touched his hand.
Describe his hands to us.
- They're a lot bigger than mine.
I'll start there. I have really tiny hands.
He always... Jason, he holds hands funny,
and he always holds my hand kind of like that
as opposed to intertwined, so he holds on to me,
and I just know that his hands are massive,
because he wears a ring size 11.
Our wedding rings, it's an 111/2,
and I wear a 4, so he can totally cup my hand.
- Were you allowed to touch each other?
Hug each other?
Exchange rings?
- No.
I still can't get a ring.
- And you were separated by a glass wall or...
- Just like this right here,
except for we had a phone,
and it was solid right here, solid glass.
- But when she comes for visits, are you allowed to hug her?
- I am now.
After we married, I'm allowed to hug her.
I'm allowed to give her a kiss before and after visit.
We're allowed to hold hands on the table
and have contact and speak.
- But of course... of course with a guard present.
- As close as you are to me.
- And you would like to have children.
- Yes, sir.
- How would that happen?
How... what sort of option is there?
- I want 50 children. She wants 2.
So, I mean, we have to work on this.
I want children for different reasons.
I want children with her specifically because I love her.
I want to be with her.
I want to give her something that she'll always have with me.
- I'm under the impression seeing you now
that you became pregnant only a few days
after we met your husband.
- You guys met him on the 18th of october?
- I think so, yeah, something like that.
- Yeah, I believe my baby was made
on the 23rd of october, approximately.
- Right after we saw your husband.
- 23rd or 24th.
- You went into action.
(laughs) So to speak.
- And the father of the baby is your husband.
- Legally, will be Jason, yes.
- And it is Jason biologically, legally...
- I can't say that. - In every single sense.
Since you are not allowed to do more than touching hands,
how do you become pregnant?
There's a mystery.
- Yeah, it's kind of a mystery.
There's people involved that I don't want to mention.
- No, we would not imply anyone,
but I have to speculate.
Is there such a thing like contraband entering prisons,
like, let's say, drugs, cell phones, illegal messages,
there seems to be something the other way round,
contraband from the prison to the outside,
and you became pregnant.
- Well, we...
- Can we formulate it like this?
- We... we prefer to say that I was artificially inseminated.
- Do you have a name for the boy?
- Well, we've... we came up with Easton.
Easton Aaron.
- Can you show us? I think there's a face.
Can you point it out? - It's right there.
If you actually can see it close enough,
you can tell my baby has my strong jaw.
You live on through your children,
and the love that you put into them
projects to the world.
My parents are both gone,
and I had this big hole in my heart,
and I realized that what you do is,
you take all of that love, and you give it back.
I mean, nothing else matters.
- I actually have this shirt tacked up on my wall.
- Can I see the shirt? Can you turn it around?
- I just make sure... and somebody told me about the...
the live your dash,
and that's really, after all this...
that I went through and quit and everything,
then I heard the story telling me live your dash.
How do you... how are you gonna live your dash?
And I didn't understand.
"What are you talking about 'dash'?"
It's on your tombstone.
You got your birth date,
and you got the day that you decease,
and you got that little dash in the middle.
That's your life right there.
That's your... that's everything between
from the time you was born from the time you die.
How are you gonna live your dash?
And that's where I'm at now.
I'm gonna live my dash and make sure that everything,
try to make everything right for the family, everybody.
Hold still and watch the birds.
And you know, once you get up into your life like that
and once you feel good about your life,
you under... you do start watching what the birds do, you know,
what the ducks are doing, like, the hummingbirds.
Wow, there's so many of them.